Early Motörhead personnel timeline incorrect?

[indieshack]

Bottom line: I think guitarist Larry Wallis was only in Motörhead for maybe three months tops and left in September 1975

Long Story: In oldish  interviews I've seen on YouTube, Eddie Clarke mentions knowing Lemmy since 1975, and also that in March 1977 when they all discussed breaking up, Clarke said they should at least record it to commemorate "the previous 18 months of being together" (paraphrasing) - which would put Clarke as lead guitarist in September/October 1975. The reason I mention this is because I used to use the same rehearsal studios as Lemmy in 1975 and Clarke was there (his girlfriend was a pretty petite girl called Gertie who was one of four people who fronted the place). 

Curious if my memory is holding up - anyone on this board see them live in late '75 or early '76 and can confirm the lineup?
Thanks

[mark321]

Hi Indieshack, sorry but I cant help you. Fantastic story though. How cool would that have been to use the same rehearsal studios as Eddie and Lemmy.
So were you in a band yourself then. Any details you want to share would be most welcome

[indieshack]

sure, unfortunately I don't have any great anecdotes!

Lemmy was block booked into the smallest of the three rehearsal rooms, the place was called SOUND MANAGEMENT - in various descriptions of Motörhead's early rehearsal's it's refered to as a furniture store or permutations thereof - Sound Management leased the Furniture Store's basement, but it was a proper rehearsal studio business run by a guy called John Proctor, and had helpers like Tom, Patty and Gertie. Gertie (called Aeroplane Gertie in Lemmy's book White Line Fever) was Eddie's girlfriend and she is how Eddie and Lemmy connected, apparently not through Phil Taylor.

I remember Motörhead using Sound Management for probably 3-4 weeks and they bumped my band from using the small (cheaper) room which I used to book, so I knew all about Motörhead being there. I only met Lemmy on one occasion - I was waiting outside the small room reading posts on a notice board when Lemmy came out and we chatted - he asked me if I had seen Eddie's Mercedes when I came in, which I hadn't. Eddie used to park his Merc on the wide sidewalk when he practised.

Lemmy was very affable, friendly and talkative - not hard to see why he was so well-liked. I guess he would have been about 29 or 30 at that time. Wish I'd known then about his history with Hendrix, would have loved to have chatted about that. He told me about how he was kicked out of Hawkwind a few months earlier. Later that evening he lent me his AC30 guitar amp (he said it was his, though I guess it could have been Eddie's). My band had a couple of cute female backing singers around that time and over the weeks they would disappear into Motorhead's room - I'm sure Motörhead didn't object I would not have had the balls to walk into any other band's rehearsal without an invite. I do remember occasions standing outside Motörhead's room waiting for my band to show up and thinking - WOW - Motörhead were musically tight and sounded like pros - really very good heavy rock. From what I can see online, the picture book (called something like Motörhead 1975?) included shots taken in the small rehearsal room at Sound Management when the lineup had Larry Wallis and Lucas Fox.

I gather Lemmy would occasionally use Sound Management again in '76, but we never saw them down there after that, and Sound Management changed hands then shut down completely in late '76 or early '77. There was another rehearsal studio in the same building with its entrance around the corner on Lott's Road called MANNO'S which we started to use, it hosted an odd mixture of punk rock bands and Mickie Most's RAK label acts (Susie Quatro, Donovan, Heavy Metal Kids etc). Manno's was on multiple floors and unlike Sound Management, above ground. In one of the descriptions that I read of the time that Larry Wallis and Eddie both got together, Larry mentioned not to worry if he's late, he's booked a rehearsal "upstairs", he was talking about Manno's.

Coincidentally Lemmy and myself both came to live in the US at about the same time. I'm glad he got to spend a chunk of his last years here, he was in his element. He was feted as the grandfather of Metal, and I remember being slack-jawed when Motörhead appeared on "The Tonight Show" in '93 or '94, about the most mainstream US show there is. I remember in the early 2000's thinking it would be fun to drive up to the Rainbow and bump into him again, but I know from people who tried that it was always a crapshoot he'd be there - his touring schedule then was hectic. 

I confess to not knowing a whole lot about Motörhead - it was only after Lemmy's passing a few years back that I looked a little further into Motörhead history, got a copy of White Line Fever (Lemmy's bio). As I wrote in my original post, according to my memory the timeline as given doesn't compute - I'm 99% certain my interaction with Lemmy was September/October 1975. I'm going to check through some music archives and I'll report back either way.

[mark321]

Hi Indieshock, thank you for your fantastic story above. Very interesting. So what was the name of your band and how did you get on . Are you still involved in the music business .

[indieshack]

Thanks , nothing came of my band - we played a few gigs and that was it - we seemed to be rehearsing forever - we all had day-jobs and it takes a real leap of faith to take the plunge to become pro. I got booted from the band in Summer '77 (I was a *real* pain in the butt then - arguably still am  ), the band folded shortly after and we all went our different ways. It was a memorable period though - When I came Stateside I did play in a blues band in Florida for several years, which was much fun - I was older, wiser, calmer and there were no band politics which always helps

[mark321]

Aug 20, 2018 13:08:20 GMT -5 indieshack said:

Thanks , nothing came of my band - we played a few gigs and that was it - we seemed to be rehearsing forever - we all had day-jobs and it takes a real leap of faith to take the plunge to become pro. I got booted from the band in Summer '77 (I was a *real* pain in the butt then - arguably still am  ), the band folded shortly after and we all went our different ways. It was a memorable period though - When I came Stateside I did play in a blues band in Florida for several years, which was much fun - I was older, wiser, calmer and there were no band politics which always helps

Oh well ,never mind. At least you were in a band though. Did the blues band play your own stuff or was it a cover band. Fast Eddie did a blues album a few years ago. I tried it but it was a bit too much for me at the time. I was more a " Gary Moore blues " type fan if I listened to any. Superb guitar player.

So what instrument did you play then ? 

[indieshack]

Thanks it was all pretty generic blues music, my guitars cheapo LP or Strat copies - nothing special.

Do you play?

[mark321]

Aug 22, 2018 15:22:27 GMT -5 indieshack said:

Thanks it was all pretty generic blues music, my guitars cheapo LP or Strat copies - nothing special.

Do you play?

I tried to learn to play the guitar when I was about 15/16 years old. I expected to pick it up and play within a couple of weeks.How wrong was I . Needless to say it was the wrong age for me to start learning, Anyway I tried again years later when my son was about 8 years old (hes 16 now ) , I took him to have lessons and we both started to learn to play. Unfortunately for me I have carpel tunnel and playing made it a lot worse so I hardly pick it up anymore. I was quite happy with how far I got with it, though I was a cheat and copied the  lessons on youtube, but I could play along to all the songs I liked (no fast solos though ). My lad still plays and has lessons. He can listen to a track and work it out .

[indieshack]

sounds like your sone is a natural! I sympathise with your Carpal Tunnel issue - I have a bit of that from pounding the computer keyboard and bad ergonomics 

[indieshack]

In case anyone is vaguely interested in the early Motörhead timeline, I think I've figured it out. - only of interest to Motörhead historians...

Larry Wallis left the band at the beginning of November 1975, following Motörhead's disastrous support gig for Blue Oyster Cult. I read the NME review of that gig and Wallis was particularly panned in it - according to the Dave Thompson notes in Roger Morton's book, other reviews were also brutal and pummelled Wallis, for example how he played with his back to the audience (in fairness that was considered vaguely acceptable in those days - Clapton did that in Cream). So wallis was understandably pissed - his last gig according to SetList.FM was on November 1st 1975, and when Lemmy invited Eddie to a practise session Larry may have taken it personally. I would have seen Motörhead about that time rehearsals with Eddie began at the studio (I thought it was October, buy hey, it was 43 years ago) so I was ball-park correct about timing. Larry Wallis was in Motörhead only for about 4 months, Lucas Fox just a few weeks less than that. The early timelines on Wikipedia etc are all incorrect. 

[mark321]

Aug 29, 2018 20:15:22 GMT -5 indieshack said:

In case anyone is vaguely interested in the early Motörhead timeline, I think I've figured it out. - only of interest to Motörhead historians...

Larry Wallis left the band at the beginning of November 1975, following Motörhead's disastrous support gig for Blue Oyster Cult. I read the NME review of that gig and Wallis was particularly panned in it - according to the Dave Thompson notes in Roger Morton's book, other reviews were also brutal and pummelled Wallis, for example how he played with his back to the audience (in fairness that was considered vaguely acceptable in those days - Clapton did that in Cream). So wallis was understandably pissed - his last gig according to SetList.FM was on November 1st 1975, and when Lemmy invited Eddie to a practise session Larry may have taken it personally. I would have seen Motörhead about that time rehearsals with Eddie began at the studio (I thought it was October, buy hey, it was 43 years ago) so I was ball-park correct about timing. Larry Wallis was in Motörhead only for about 4 months, Lucas Fox just a few weeks less than that. The early timelines on Wikipedia etc are all incorrect. 

Interesting stuff- thanks again

[seaninoz]

Hi, The story of the band in the early years is covered in the book "Born to Lose, Live To Win" published in 1981 (actually im selling my copy - see the for sale sale forum ). It quotes that Phil joined at the time of the "On Parole" album being recorded in Sep 1975 ( overdubs of guitars and vocals were done in Dec 1975/Feb 76). Larry wanted to bring in a second guitarist due to the complexity of the overdubs he had laid down on the recorded album and the desire to replicate the sound live  - this would suggest  Jan/Feb 1976 when the second guitarist came in.

In comes Eddie , that second guitarist. A friend of Phil's , they had met the summer before when they were both working on a barge. Eddie on being offered the gig was happy to be just rhythm and the band wanted to be a four piece.

At the first rehearsal Larry was late, and the three others played as a trio for a few hours while waiting for him. When Larry did show up he tuned up and started to play the track  "The Fool" loudly drowning out the others -  he had the best amps at that time. Larry carried on playing while the others just stopped probably already pissed off by his lateness. They expected Larry to simply stop playing and apologise. Larry didn't apologise and got the hump and became withdrawn from the others over the proceeding days before saying that he didn't want to be part of the band so Larry made the decision to leave.

In the book, all three of the others made it clear it was larrys decision and they had wanted to be a 4 piece.

That's how the band came to be a trio and the start date I would put this event at being late January but more likely early Feb 1976.

The first gig as a trio was at Hull 5 March 1976. The prior gig to this which proved to be Larry's last was in November 1975.

[lll1975]

As fas as I know.

Larry was with band until March 1976. Than Eddie came. It was one or two dates with him in March which i found somewhere online. Late March Eddie played first show. Larry recorded their real official first album "On Parole" (which was in stores later, that doesnt make him less official), and that album was recorded, mixed etc... from December 1975 - February 1976. So, officialy, Eddie was in band from March 1976.

[lll1975]

Aug 29, 2018 20:15:22 GMT -5 indieshack said:

In case anyone is vaguely interested in the early Motörhead timeline, I think I've figured it out. - only of interest to Motörhead historians...

Larry Wallis left the band at the beginning of November 1975, following Motörhead's disastrous support gig for Blue Oyster Cult. I read the NME review of that gig and Wallis was particularly panned in it - according to the Dave Thompson notes in Roger Morton's book, other reviews were also brutal and pummelled Wallis, for example how he played with his back to the audience (in fairness that was considered vaguely acceptable in those days - Clapton did that in Cream). So wallis was understandably pissed - his last gig according to SetList.FM was on November 1st 1975, and when Lemmy invited Eddie to a practise session Larry may have taken it personally. I would have seen Motörhead about that time rehearsals with Eddie began at the studio (I thought it was October, buy hey, it was 43 years ago) so I was ball-park correct about timing. Larry Wallis was in Motörhead only for about 4 months, Lucas Fox just a few weeks less than that. The early timelines on Wikipedia etc are all incorrect. 

Lucas left during first session of 'On Parole' in December 1975. So if you count from 20.july 1975 as their first working day and show, thats 5 months. After first session producer was changed and than on second session Phil Taylor came in. This first session was released, 4 tracks, on EMI reissue of 'On Parole'. On sleeve is their logo, even it didnt existed than, thats music industry for you. But Mick Farren did some liner notes in it.

By the way Lucas with Paul Rudolph and Alan Davey did new Pink Fairies album.

You have here some great posts about Motorhead history.

[lll1975]

Feb 19, 2019 4:41:23 GMT -5 seaninoz said:

Hi, The story of the band in the early years is covered in the book "Born to Lose, Live To Win" published in 1981 (actually im selling my copy - see the for sale sale forum ). It quotes that Phil joined at the time of the "On Parole" album being recorded in Sep 1975 ( overdubs of guitars and vocals were done in Dec 1975/Feb 76). Larry wanted to bring in a second guitarist due to the complexity of the overdubs he had laid down on the recorded album and the desire to replicate the sound live  - this would suggest  Jan/Feb 1976 when the second guitarist came in.

In comes Eddie , that second guitarist. A friend of Phil's , they had met the summer before when they were both working on a barge. Eddie on being offered the gig was happy to be just rhythm and the band wanted to be a four piece.

At the first rehearsal Larry was late, and the three others played as a trio for a few hours while waiting for him. When Larry did show up he tuned up and started to play the track  "The Fool" loudly drowning out the others -  he had the best amps at that time. Larry carried on playing while the others just stopped probably already pissed off by his lateness. They expected Larry to simply stop playing and apologise. Larry didn't apologise and got the hump and became withdrawn from the others over the proceeding days before saying that he didn't want to be part of the band so Larry made the decision to leave.

In the book, all three of the others made it clear it was larrys decision and they had wanted to be a 4 piece.

That's how the band came to be a trio and the start date I would put this event at being late January but more likely early Feb 1976.

The first gig as a trio was at Hull 5 March 1976. The prior gig to this which proved to be Larry's last was in November 1975.

Problem is Lemmy said there were no two sessions. Dec 1975 - Feb 1976 is correct. Somebody would think that in Sept. 1975 was session with first producer. But Lemmy said they didnt have money and was one session. So all this happened in Dec 1975-Feb.1976.

Whatever, guy here wanted to know when Eddie line up started, thats for sure March 1976. Before that was with Larry.

PS Song was 'The Fools' not 'the fool'.